Help Chronic Pain

Question:

In article <f5a49167.0203100715.175c3…@posting.google.com>, Gretchen <dgm…@aol.com> wrote: >The AC was extremely professional and caring, so I >don’t think he was a quack -and the fact that she got so sick makes me >think there is something to it.  But I never would have taken her if I >had known that would happen. Since he didn’t get to finish the >treatment, I don’t know that we accomplished anything.

Uh, what you described actually sounds like shock.  As in, the acupunturist manged to hit a nerve bundle with a needle.  Which _does_ cause terrible pain.  Tuning pale, sweaty and vomitting makes me think "shock."  And it’s not a good thing, regardless of what the quack said (yes, "quack").  If he hadn’t said "this is a good thing" about her getting sick, I would have given him the benefit of the doubt.   That’s too bad, because acupunture _does_ often work for the pain of pinched nerves.  But often not for the reasons the chinese medicine practitioners tell you.  Your story reminds me of the chiropractor who said that I had "a vertibrae out of place" and wanted to crack my back when the real problem was that I had inflammation in the muscles of the back and shoulder.  As in, you could touch next to my shoulder blade and *feel* a hot spot.  It’s not that _all_ chiropractors are quacks…but the one I got certainly was.  It sounds like you got one of the quacks this time.  I’d say it was the result of not licensing practitioners, but I’ve encountered medical doctors who are just as incompetent.   I’m sorry your daughter had to suffer through all that. — Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        l…@retro.com            KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"

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I have had your daughter on my mind. You know our 10 yr old g’daughter has Juvenile RA. She was diagnosed when she was in the 1st grade. She aches a lot at night. We keep a heating pad for her legs and feet.And she often takes several hot soaking bath during the night too. My hubby rubs her feet and legs a lot when she is in pain. That seems to help…….dunno if it is the "love" and the warmth of his big old hands, or the rubbing that gets the circulation moving that does the magic I keep flannel sheets on the bed for her. The warmth of the sheets seems to help those achy joints. ( they do mine too ) The Rheumie gives her medication on a daily basis. That seems to help too. She keeps going and going, doing things that the other kids do. She rides bikes, plays kickball, runs, and jumps rope…….all the usual things. She is just very small for her age. We keep children’s tylenol for her at the school clinic. So if she starts aching during school hours, they can give it to her. This helps her through the school day…… I don’t have any words of wisdom for you. Sorry. But have just had you and your daughter on my mind….. Keeping her in my prayers…. barbtoo east tennessee

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I had acupuncture once by someone not licensed to do it here in America but had graduated from college in Korea with a "degree" in acupuncture. I thought it was strange that he used my hand to treat my face and the opposite side. He said they never use the actual area where the pain is located. I forget why but it made sense in the strange Eastern philosophy sort of way. It was an interesting experience and my pain did not go away immediately but I’ve never had that pain as bad since – only a few twinges of pain and then it is gone. So based on the little I do know I would not have someone poking me in the area of the pain. Bev "Gretchen" <dgm…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:f5a49167.0203100715.175c30e8@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thank you all so much for your support and prayers. > We took Midori for accupunture yesterday.  Everyone I know who has > tried accupuncture found it relaxing and painless.  However, my > daughter had a terrible experience.  The accupunturist (AC for > short)talked about testing for "aggressive energy" and "husband wife > balance" and I thought "I don’t care as long as this works."  He > started putting the needles in her back, and she was in terrible pain, > crying and shaking.  Then she started getting real sweaty and pale and > vomited.  He said it was because she had aggressive energy, which was > unusual in a child, and that it was good that she got sick so she > could get rid of it.  Then he wanted to put needles in her feet, but > she was done.  The AC was extremely professional and caring, so I > don’t think he was a quack -and the fact that she got so sick makes me > think there is something to it.  But I never would have taken her if I > had known that would happen. Since he didn’t get to finish the > treatment, I don’t know that we accomplished anything. > Sorry to keep writing novels.  I really do appreciate all of you > "listening" to me vent.

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> Way too familiar.  The doctor told my mother at first that I was malingering, > then that I was just going through "growing pains" when I started having > excruciating pain in my wrists, knees and ankles at ages 10 and 11.  At > 11, I started having sunlight reactions.  And even then, my mother was > convinced it was just because I was a fair-skinned redhead.  A lot of > pediatricians just seem to think that kids can’t _get_ serious illnesses. > I wasn’t actually diagnosed with lupus until I was 25, even though I’d > had a couple major flares that left me bed-ridden at ages 13, 18, and > almost 21.  

I understand the reluctance of doctors to diagnose a serious illness in a child – especially because of insurance and pre-existing conditions.  It must have been so hard for you to be sick and in pain and not know why. > My other thought as another stepdancer would be to wonder if her teacher > has her doing jumps.  

She’s just been dancing a year, and they just got their hard shoes (right before this started as a matter of fact).  She does do "over the bridges" alot, but not the real high jumps, and they don’t go on their toes for quite a while at her school.  I haven’t seen anyone under the Prizewinner level do it here. I have wondered if the hard shoes had something to do with this, since she had practiced a whole lot on the new wooden dance floor her dad built her.  It gives, so it’s not so hard on her joints. > Ah, finally found a photo: > http://katiemcmahon.com/jean/photo/5.jpg

Is this you? Wow!  You can do that with SLE – that is astounding. They should do an article in Arthritis Today about you.

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Thank you all so much for your support and prayers. We took Midori for accupunture yesterday.  Everyone I know who has tried accupuncture found it relaxing and painless.  However, my daughter had a terrible experience.  The accupunturist (AC for short)talked about testing for "aggressive energy" and "husband wife balance" and I thought "I don’t care as long as this works."  He started putting the needles in her back, and she was in terrible pain, crying and shaking.  Then she started getting real sweaty and pale and vomited.  He said it was because she had aggressive energy, which was unusual in a child, and that it was good that she got sick so she could get rid of it.  Then he wanted to put needles in her feet, but she was done.  The AC was extremely professional and caring, so I don’t think he was a quack -and the fact that she got so sick makes me think there is something to it.  But I never would have taken her if I had known that would happen. Since he didn’t get to finish the treatment, I don’t know that we accomplished anything. Sorry to keep writing novels.  I really do appreciate all of you "listening" to me vent.

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In article <f5a49167.0203100706.6ef54…@posting.google.com>, Gretchen <dgm…@aol.com> wrote: >> Ah, finally found a photo: >> http://katiemcmahon.com/jean/photo/5.jpg >Is this you? Wow!  You can do that with SLE – that is astounding. >They should do an article in Arthritis Today about you.

Hahah.  No no, that’s Jean Butler.  I am 33 years old, far from slender and I couldn’t land that sort of a jump anymore to save my life.  The last time I tried it, I landed on my butt.  I _do_ teach ceili dance which is lower to the floor.  I’ve also performed as an _english_ stepdancer, which is lower to the floor but harder on the feet in some ways.  We wore wooden-soled clogs for the english dances.  And while I never broke a toe doing irish, I _did_ tromp on myself with my big iron- shod clogs.  Normally broken toes are the result of getting your foot caught in a crack on the floor.   I can demonstrate competition style reel steps, but I pay for it later. Last week’s adventure was teaching slipjigs to adult dancers who very seldom ever hear a slipjig played.  When I started having real problems keeping up, I started playing pennywhistle, then fife.  So I can at least play tunes for the classes instead of relying on recorded music (it really makes a difference in what the dancers can recognize when they dance elsewhere).  I now have a bunch of able-bodied (and younger) teachers running the three or four classes we usually have on Monday nights. I make sure that certain things _do_ get taught, and make sure that the ceili actually happens in good order.  Things like, "Oooh, someone re- wired the sound board again.  Wonder if it’ll work?" and "15 minutes til the ceili starts and there are _no_ musicians."  One evening, I actually ended up leading the band, because I was the only melody player who was used to leading.  I tend to play bonehead-simple tunes, but at least I can play ‘em up to time and keep a steady tempo. Oh, and the cheezy good thing for the week is: I can get up on pointe again.  Physical therapy _did_ pay off. — Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        l…@retro.com            KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"

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Has shingles been ruled out?….sometimes the rashing is under the skin and not obvious with blistering….just a thought. — Shelagh at ‘Lupus – Invisible in Plain Sight http://www3.telus.net/valleylupus/index.html Lupus Information and Support Contact for Everyone. "KCat" <kcdoc…@ghg.net> wrote in message

news:e0ki8ugsa9h5rib2ad86etk36jo4rm8r6l@4ax.com… | On 8 Mar 2002 04:03:38 -0800, DGM…@aol.com (Gretchen)  wrote: | | it could be anything but when I have a fever (99.3) that is due to a | flare, I hurt to the touch – everything hurts. | | someone else mentioned myositis – sounds like a good thing to rule | out. | | > I asked about fibro and the pediatrician said "kids don’t get it | >until they reach puberty." | | arbitrary rule determined by doctors based on limited observation. | | IOW. | | >The neurologist thinks she is following in | >my footsteps, however.  We are trying to get her in to a | >rheumatologist at Children’s Hospital. | > | >Does this sound familiar to anyone?  I can deal with my chronic pain, | >but she’s too young to have to go through this. | | It may not be of much consolation but my daughter has had some | problems the past few years that were suspiciously like my own. but | nothing ever serious and an ANA of 1:80 with all other tests normal | (‘cept thyroid).  But overall, she does okay – her symptoms are | sporadic and could be hormonal more than anything.  She had a headache | that lasted weeks with little relief.  that is gone now.  so perhaps | some of this is hormonal upheaval (she’s not too young, B. started at | 9 with cyclic problems) combined with the genetic predisposition | toward this type of problem (something that looks autoimmune).  hope | the Rheumie will help and you are both in my thoughts. | | kcat <less achey, still whiny> |

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"Trin" <trinit…@attbi.com> wrote in message <news:6P2i8.3572$uA5.5846@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>… > gretchen, >    where are you at?  if you are by chicago  try and go to childrens up > there they are the best,  see i dont rememebr pain but on that same note i > do not rememeber much about my childhood,  sorry i cannot help  but try and > go to childrens in chicago they are the best from what i remember!!

Actually, Trin, we are very fortunate to have Children’s Hospital of Denver an hour away.  That is where she is getting all of her care. Thanks for the information, though.  She is finally starting to improve, slowly.  Since Wednesday she has been in a little less pain each day.  The past 2 nights she had gone to sleep without tears. Maybe the ibuprofen is finally starting to help.

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"BJ" <B…@sk.nojunk.ca> wrote in message <news:u8hpdg1ss3ld4c@corp.supernews.com>… > Hi Gretchen, > The pain you descibe does sound familiar to me. I suffer like that during my > flares. I could not tell you is it is muscle or bone pain. It feels deep, if > you know what I mean. My skin also gets so sensitive that I can not stand to > be touched. I could not even have my beloved dogs near me. The slightest > contact with them caused excuriating pain. I only slept about 2 hours > intermitantly during a 24 hours period because of that.

That sounds miserable, BJ.  And you can’t get comfort from your dogs or escape into sleep.  I hope that doesn’t happen often! I feel so sorry > hearing that a child is going through that. I have some questions for you. > Is she getting muscle twitching? Is she suffering from weakness? Is she > poorly co-ordinated now?

To look at her, she looks perfectly normal.  She doesn’t move stiffly, she’s well coordinated, no fever, no muscle twitching, no weakness. She is slowly starting to get better.  I think maybe the ibuprofen is finally doing it’s job.  She still doesn’t want her back touched, but that is the only sensitive place.  We see the accupuncturist today. We are hoping he will help her enough that they can do the physical therapy.  Thanks for your thoughts and ideas.  We’ll keep myositis in mind.

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My heart goes out to you. Seeing our children suffer is the worst.  Not to overstep your dr. but I would watch that PT until they know what is wrong. Could bring on lots more pain than she already has, speaking from experience and from what others have said too.  I will keep her in my prayers for sure. Suzanne

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 I do hope someone is able to remedy your daughters pain! I have a ten year old granddaughter, can’t imagine seeing her in such pain. Yet on the same note I do remember when I was eight and dx’d with RA – - my Mama would sit for hours and rub my legs while I cried and hollered and so on……. God bless Leslie "Gretchen" <DGM…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:f355e187.0203080403.37664c58@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My 10 year old daughter woke up crying 10 days ago, with pain, > numbness and tingling over her entire back.  Since then, she has been > on Advil or Advil alternating with Tylenol around the clock.  She > jumps if someone touches her back.  Heat and massage make it worse. > She moves around just fine, but hurts more if she sits/stands/lays in > one position for very long.  She is an Irish step dancer and lives for > her lessons.  She’s in too much pain right now to do it, which speaks > volumes.  Her teacher says she is definitely not herself, although she > tries to hide the pain at school. > In the past 10 days, she has seen her wonderful pediatrician, a > pediatric orthopedic surgeon and a pediatric neurologist.  Back x-rays > and everything else is normal.  The pediatrician and orthopedist think > it’s muscular (even though moving doesn’t make it worse) and want her > to get a bone scan and start physical therapy next week.  I don’t know > how they’ll do PT when she cries when her back is rubbed.  We are > going to try accupunture tomorrow, just to try to get her some relief. >  I asked about fibro and the pediatrician said "kids don’t get it > until they reach puberty."  The neurologist thinks she is following in > my footsteps, however.  We are trying to get her in to a > rheumatologist at Children’s Hospital. > Does this sound familiar to anyone?  I can deal with my chronic pain, > but she’s too young to have to go through this.

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Gretchen, I am sorry to hear about your little girl and her pain. Bless her heart!! Please let us know what it happening with her. She will be in the thoughts and prayers of many people here…. barbtoo east tennessee

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In article <f355e187.0203080403.37664…@posting.google.com>, Gretchen <DGM…@aol.com> wrote:

[...] > I asked about fibro and the pediatrician said "kids don’t get it >until they reach puberty."  The neurologist thinks she is following in >my footsteps, however.  We are trying to get her in to a >rheumatologist at Children’s Hospital. >Does this sound familiar to anyone?  I can deal with my chronic pain, >but she’s too young to have to go through this.

Way too familiar.  The doctor told my mother at first that I was malingering, then that I was just going through "growing pains" when I started having excruciating pain in my wrists, knees and ankles at ages 10 and 11.  At 11, I started having sunlight reactions.  And even then, my mother was convinced it was just because I was a fair-skinned redhead.  A lot of pediatricians just seem to think that kids can’t _get_ serious illnesses. I wasn’t actually diagnosed with lupus until I was 25, even though I’d had a couple major flares that left me bed-ridden at ages 13, 18, and almost 21.   My other thought as another stepdancer would be to wonder if her teacher has her doing jumps.  Lower back pain _is_ an unfortunately consequence of the straight-backed, straight-kneed style that scores high at the feis. And a lot of teachers are having the kids go up on point as early as age 9 out here in San Francisco.  That’s way too young.  She may have simply started practicing a move before her muscles are built up for it.  There’s one leap that’s _harder_ than a grande jete, which is considered one of the most punishing dance moves in ballet.  God, I can’t remember the name of it just now, because we didn’t do it when I was taking lessons.   Ah, finally found a photo: http://katiemcmahon.com/jean/photo/5.jpg Simply landing badly from one of those leaps (or the extreme rising step, where the foot is kicked up at head height) can pinch nerves in the back. You can also get repetitive stress problems simply from the high-impact style.  When I teach ceili dancers, I tell them _not_ to keep their knees perfectly straight.  It helps soak up the impact.  We’re on a hard floor, and I’m teaching adults who aren’t always in the best shape.  Shin splints, fallen arches, and ankle problems are the most comon injuries from irish dance, but back problems can also show up simply because we’re encouraged to not bend.  Which ends up concentrating the impact, rather than cushioning it.   One of the 16-year-olds has been complaining about hip and lower back pain in the last few weeks.  Turns out it can be fixed with a couple weird-looking stretches, but it’s something to remember.  It’s my strong suspicion that your daughter’s problem is probably a result of several factors.  I’d still have her completely checked out.  The PT may actually help her, if it turns out to be muscles that are pulling unevenly or something pinching. — Lee M.Thompson-Herbert        l…@retro.com            KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"

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Gretchen, So sorry to hear about the pain your daughter is having.  Hopefully you will discover the cause real soon.  It is so hard on us to see a child suffer!!! Keep us all informed of what is happening. Hugs, Sherry

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On 8 Mar 2002 04:03:38 -0800, DGM…@aol.com (Gretchen)  wrote: it could be anything but when I have a fever (99.3) that is due to a flare, I hurt to the touch – everything hurts. someone else mentioned myositis – sounds like a good thing to rule out. > I asked about fibro and the pediatrician said "kids don’t get it >until they reach puberty."  

arbitrary rule determined by doctors based on limited observation. IOW. >The neurologist thinks she is following in >my footsteps, however.  We are trying to get her in to a >rheumatologist at Children’s Hospital. >Does this sound familiar to anyone?  I can deal with my chronic pain, >but she’s too young to have to go through this.

It may not be of much consolation but my daughter has had some problems the past few years that were suspiciously like my own. but nothing ever serious and an ANA of 1:80 with all other tests normal (‘cept thyroid).  But overall, she does okay – her symptoms are sporadic and could be hormonal more than anything.  She had a headache that lasted weeks with little relief.  that is gone now.  so perhaps some of this is hormonal upheaval (she’s not too young, B. started at 9 with cyclic problems) combined with the genetic predisposition toward this type of problem (something that looks autoimmune).  hope the Rheumie will help and you are both in my thoughts. kcat <less achey, still whiny>

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gretchen,    where are you at?  if you are by chicago  try and go to childrens up there they are the best,  see i dont rememebr pain but on that same note i do not rememeber much about my childhood,  sorry i cannot help  but try and go to childrens in chicago they are the best from what i remember!! "Gretchen" <DGM…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:f355e187.0203080403.37664c58@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My 10 year old daughter woke up crying 10 days ago, with pain, > numbness and tingling over her entire back.  Since then, she has been > on Advil or Advil alternating with Tylenol around the clock.  She > jumps if someone touches her back.  Heat and massage make it worse. > She moves around just fine, but hurts more if she sits/stands/lays in > one position for very long.  She is an Irish step dancer and lives for > her lessons.  She’s in too much pain right now to do it, which speaks > volumes.  Her teacher says she is definitely not herself, although she > tries to hide the pain at school. > In the past 10 days, she has seen her wonderful pediatrician, a > pediatric orthopedic surgeon and a pediatric neurologist.  Back x-rays > and everything else is normal.  The pediatrician and orthopedist think > it’s muscular (even though moving doesn’t make it worse) and want her > to get a bone scan and start physical therapy next week.  I don’t know > how they’ll do PT when she cries when her back is rubbed.  We are > going to try accupunture tomorrow, just to try to get her some relief. >  I asked about fibro and the pediatrician said "kids don’t get it > until they reach puberty."  The neurologist thinks she is following in > my footsteps, however.  We are trying to get her in to a > rheumatologist at Children’s Hospital. > Does this sound familiar to anyone?  I can deal with my chronic pain, > but she’s too young to have to go through this.

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My heart goes out to you and your daughter. A child in pain, is a horrible heart wrenching thing. Good luck with the doctors.Wende

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Hi Gretchen, The pain you descibe does sound familiar to me. I suffer like that during my flares. I could not tell you is it is muscle or bone pain. It feels deep, if you know what I mean. My skin also gets so sensitive that I can not stand to be touched. I could not even have my beloved dogs near me. The slightest contact with them caused excuriating pain. I only slept about 2 hours intermitantly during a 24 hours period because of that. I feel so sorry hearing that a child is going through that. I have some questions for you. Is she getting muscle twitching? Is she suffering from weakness? Is she poorly co-ordinated now? I think if her other, less invasive, tests don’t give the answer, they should do  a muscle biopsy. I just read an article about an 18years old who had myositis. It is an autoimmune disorder that affects the muscles. The girl I read about had a fever with it. I hope you will let us know what happens with this. BJ- Saskatchewan, Canada "Gretchen" <DGM…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:f355e187.0203080403.37664c58@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My 10 year old daughter woke up crying 10 days ago, with pain, > numbness and tingling over her entire back.  Since then, she has been > on Advil or Advil alternating with Tylenol around the clock.  She > jumps if someone touches her back.  Heat and massage make it worse. > She moves around just fine, but hurts more if she sits/stands/lays in > one position for very long.  She is an Irish step dancer and lives for > her lessons.  She’s in too much pain right now to do it, which speaks > volumes.  Her teacher says she is definitely not herself, although she > tries to hide the pain at school. > In the past 10 days, she has seen her wonderful pediatrician, a > pediatric orthopedic surgeon and a pediatric neurologist.  Back x-rays > and everything else is normal.  The pediatrician and orthopedist think > it’s muscular (even though moving doesn’t make it worse) and want her > to get a bone scan and start physical therapy next week.  I don’t know > how they’ll do PT when she cries when her back is rubbed.  We are > going to try accupunture tomorrow, just to try to get her some relief. >  I asked about fibro and the pediatrician said "kids don’t get it > until they reach puberty."  The neurologist thinks she is following in > my footsteps, however.  We are trying to get her in to a > rheumatologist at Children’s Hospital. > Does this sound familiar to anyone?  I can deal with my chronic pain, > but she’s too young to have to go through this.

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My 10 year old daughter woke up crying 10 days ago, with pain, numbness and tingling over her entire back.  Since then, she has been on Advil or Advil alternating with Tylenol around the clock.  She jumps if someone touches her back.  Heat and massage make it worse. She moves around just fine, but hurts more if she sits/stands/lays in one position for very long.  She is an Irish step dancer and lives for her lessons.  She’s in too much pain right now to do it, which speaks volumes.  Her teacher says she is definitely not herself, although she tries to hide the pain at school. In the past 10 days, she has seen her wonderful pediatrician, a pediatric orthopedic surgeon and a pediatric neurologist.  Back x-rays and everything else is normal.  The pediatrician and orthopedist think it’s muscular (even though moving doesn’t make it worse) and want her to get a bone scan and start physical therapy next week.  I don’t know how they’ll do PT when she cries when her back is rubbed.  We are going to try accupunture tomorrow, just to try to get her some relief.  I asked about fibro and the pediatrician said "kids don’t get it until they reach puberty."  The neurologist thinks she is following in my footsteps, however.  We are trying to get her in to a rheumatologist at Children’s Hospital. Does this sound familiar to anyone?  I can deal with my chronic pain, but she’s too young to have to go through this.

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